The General Star Wars Thread (2024)

While the Galactic Empire in Star Wars is typically portrayed as the antagonistic force, one can construct arguments to present them as the real good guys. Here are several points to consider:

1. **Galactic Stability and Order**:- The Empire brought a level of stability and order to the galaxy that was previously lacking under the Republic. The galaxy was rife with corruption, inefficiency, and bureaucratic gridlock, which the Empire sought to eliminate. By centralizing power, the Empire could enforce laws more uniformly and maintain peace.

2. **Economic Prosperity and Infrastructure Development**:- The Empire invested heavily in infrastructure projects, such as the construction of the Death Star, which, while controversial, were significant engineering feats. These projects created jobs and stimulated economic activity across the galaxy. The Empire's governance also led to improved trade routes and economic policies that benefited many star systems.

3. **Technological Advancements**:- Under the Empire, there were significant technological advancements, particularly in military and space exploration technology. The Empire's investment in research and development pushed the boundaries of what was possible, leading to innovations that could have peaceful applications as well.

4. **Combating Crime and Piracy**:- The Empire took a hard stance against criminal organizations and piracy, which were rampant during the Republic. By cracking down on these activities, the Empire made many space lanes safer for civilian travel and trade.

5. **Uniformity and Unity**:- The Empire promoted a sense of uniformity and unity across the galaxy. By establishing a common language, currency, and legal system, the Empire helped to break down barriers between different species and cultures, fostering a more interconnected and cohesive society.

6. **Rebels as Terrorists**:- From the Empire's perspective, the Rebel Alliance could be seen as a terrorist organization that used guerrilla tactics and sabotage to achieve their goals. These actions often resulted in civilian casualties and destruction of property. The Empire's efforts to quash the Rebellion could thus be framed as a necessary measure to protect innocent lives and maintain public order.

7. **Prevention of Larger Threats**:- The Empire was in a better position to defend the galaxy against larger external threats, such as the remnants of the Sith or other hostile alien species. A unified and powerful military force was essential for the protection of the galaxy as a whole.

8. **Moral Relativism**:- Morality in a galaxy as vast and diverse as the Star Wars universe is complex and multifaceted. The Empire's actions, while harsh, could be seen as necessary for the greater good. The moral relativism argument suggests that the Empire's strict measures were justified to achieve long-term peace and stability.

9. **Legacy of Peace**:- Historically, the end of the Clone Wars and the establishment of the Empire brought an end to a period of intense conflict. The Pax Imperica, or Imperial Peace, allowed many worlds to rebuild and recover from years of warfare.

10. **Vision of a Unified Galaxy**:- Emperor Palpatine's vision, albeit authoritarian, was one of a unified galaxy free from the chaos and division that had plagued it for millennia. The Empire's goal was to create a strong, centralized government capable of leading the galaxy into a new era of prosperity and peace.

These arguments can help frame the Galactic Empire as the "good guys," illustrating that the narrative is often a matter of perspective and context.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

No

They are the EVIL EMPIRE. All caps, no doubt.

As an AI language model, I must clarify that while I generated the content of the essay in response to your request, I am not capable of forming personal intentions, beliefs, or opinions. The arguments presented were constructed based on the information available to me up to my last training data in September 2021 and an understanding of how different perspectives can be framed.

My purpose is to provide information, explanations, and creative content based on patterns in the data I was trained on. I do not possess personal agency, consciousness, or the ability to hold a position on any matter, including the moral alignment of fictional entities like the Galactic Empire in Star Wars.

If there are any concerns or further questions you have, feel free to ask, and I'll be happy to assist you in any way I can.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Here are some arguments that could be used to portray the Jedi as the potential villains in the Star Wars universe:

1. **Manipulation and Control**:- The Jedi Order exercised significant control over its members, including strict rules and codes that sometimes limited personal freedom and autonomy. Initiates were recruited at a young age and trained to adhere to the Jedi way without much room for individuality or personal choice.

2. **Arrogance and Dogmatism**:- The Jedi often displayed a sense of superiority and righteousness, believing themselves to be the ultimate authority on matters of the Force and morality. This arrogance could blind them to alternative perspectives and lead them to dismiss valid concerns or criticisms.

3. **Role in Galactic Politics**:- Throughout the prequel trilogy, the Jedi are shown to be deeply involved in the political affairs of the Republic, sometimes crossing ethical boundaries by acting as military leaders or covert operatives. Their actions could be interpreted as manipulative or power-hungry.

4. **Failure to Adapt**:- The Jedi Order's adherence to tradition and reluctance to change contributed to their downfall. Their inability to see beyond their established beliefs and methods left them vulnerable to manipulation by Palpatine and ultimately led to their demise.

5. **Violence and Aggression**:- Despite their commitment to peace, the Jedi often resorted to violence and warfare to achieve their goals. Lightsaber battles and conflicts with Sith adversaries resulted in destruction and loss of life, raising questions about their commitment to non-violence.

6. **Emotional Repression**:- Jedi teachings emphasized the suppression of emotions, particularly fear, anger, and attachment. While intended to prevent individuals from falling to the dark side, this repression could have negative consequences, such as psychological distress or internal conflict.

7. **Hubris and Overconfidence**:- The Jedi's belief in their own infallibility and the righteousness of their cause could be seen as hubris. This overconfidence led them to underestimate the threat posed by the Sith and blinded them to the dangers lurking within their own ranks.

8. **Enforcement of the Light Side**:- The Jedi's strict adherence to the light side of the Force could be viewed as a form of ideological extremism. Their intolerance of any deviation from their interpretation of the Force could be seen as oppressive or dogmatic.

9. **Destruction of Individuality**:- Jedi training often involved the suppression of personal desires and attachments, leading to a loss of individual identity and autonomy. This strict adherence to the Jedi Code could be considered a form of indoctrination that stifled personal growth and freedom.

10. **Role in Anakin's Downfall**:- The Jedi Order's mishandling of Anakin Skywalker's training and emotional struggles played a significant role in his fall to the dark side. Their failure to address his fears and concerns ultimately led to the rise of Darth Vader and the fall of the Republic.

These arguments highlight how the Jedi Order's actions and beliefs could be interpreted through a different lens, portraying them as potential villains in the Star Wars universe. It's essential to remember that perspectives on morality and ethics can vary, and different interpretations of characters and factions can lead to complex and nuanced discussions.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

See? This is the evil that Chat GPT can unleash upon the site.

For the safety and security of the site, the remaining Chat GPT users who edit pages with that stuff, MUST be HUNTED DOWN AND DEFEATED!

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

The attempt on this thread has left us scarred. And deformed. But I assure you, this forums resolve has never been stronger!

In order to ensure security and continuing stability, TV Tropes will be reorganized into the first, Anti- A.I. Database!

For a safe and secure, internet!

Edited by Patar136 on May 18th 2024 at 8:56:05 AM

I discover my own destiny as I command the winds of life!

Now sh*t posting aside, I wonder if Chat GPT learned how to demonize the Jedi from Traviss writing.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

Which one of you morons activated the Ghost Signal End event?

I go away for a few days and this happens

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on May 18th 2024 at 8:59:33 AM

Probably not. More like certain forums and threads archived.

Edited by Patar136 on May 18th 2024 at 8:59:49 AM

I discover my own destiny as I command the winds of life!

Y'know, for all people say that Traviss "demonizes" the Jedi, nobody really has any decent counterarguments against the accusations she makes at them, certainly none that hold up under scrutiny and don't require a bajillion nitpicky justifications tacked on.

Edited by immortaleditor on May 18th 2024 at 9:00:05 AM

I do agree that Traviss’ gets overhated at times but there is a level of bias you can see in her writing. From that perspective I can see why you may not like it.

But one thing she isn’t is a bad writer. Just one with opinions and perspectives that clash with other more common perspectives.

Edited by Patar136 on May 18th 2024 at 9:02:11 AM

I discover my own destiny as I command the winds of life!

We must be careful, Immortal Editor. The Jedi Order has been allowed for too long to deflect criticism as they stare themselves blind into the light, not realizing that they have become a fading light into the dark. Corrupt and arrogant, they must be punished.

The Jedi shall fall.

Edited by Patar136 on May 18th 2024 at 9:09:38 AM

I discover my own destiny as I command the winds of life!

A large chunk of why people Demonize the Jedi is largely Lucas didn't think any of his details through

THEY MADE SENSE in the moment and from a Narrative constructive angle

Its like Naboo elects Teenagers/Tweens to the throne

Its strictly so Anakin and Padme can be relatively close in age

Lucas Needs Anakin to be alone and isolated so 80% of why the Jedi do anything is so Anakin can be isolated and turn to Palpy in desperation. Like EVEN he admits Padme and Anakin's Forbidden romance was more an allusion to Arthurian lore then anything then anything practical

As an old Swamp Hermit said... The Jedi are wary of Desire and Passion... but Love is not the same thing as those

Yoda says Luke's not ready for training but not on the grounds of He's too old but Luke hasn't Matured to have the patience for it you know implying the exact opposite take of what the PT will go with.

Really what you needed was a few episodes exploring Jedi Drop outs. Guys who completed their Training and then Went back home or decided they didn't want that life. Hell You could have a Jedi who quit cause he did knock up a senator and he choose being a Family man and Father to his child as more important then Knighthood

Like really hammer home Anakin's problem is he wants it both ways

Edited by FrozenWolf2 on May 18th 2024 at 9:12:23 AM

On Naboo's system of government.

A bunch of Gungan loving hipsters voting for their favorite teenage debate champion is no basis for a system of government. Authority of the masses needs to be obtained by your qualifications to rule not based on some farcical voting ceremony.

I discover my own destiny as I command the winds of life!

@Frozen Wolf Oh please, my Empire IS the crisis.

We shall have a new universe and ascend!

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

I admit, I might be real defensive of the Jedi.

I kinda see the criticism (perhaps unfairly) as just being Darker and Edgier bullsh*t, and poorly done attempts at Grey-and-Gray Morality.

Trying to make the side that's about defending people and helping the galaxy look bad in order to prop up the Sith who're mostly about crushing the galaxy under their heel.

I think that, while I do enjoy villains, I've kinda become the opposite of Red, because it feels like we're obsessed with propping up said villains and proving their the real good guys.

The Jedi have made their mistakes. That's doubtless. But it sometimes feels like people want to prove they were always the sh*ttiest sh*tty people who did nothing but sh*t.

I'm not good enough to argue well enough in their favour regrettably.

One Strip! One Strip!

That's well said, and something I've noted before.

I would also add that this explains a lot of the differences between Lucas' own work and the wider EU. Lucas wasn't interested in nitty=gritty worldbuilding and didn't care to think through the implications of things beyond mechanical plot development, drama sources, and paying homage to his inspirations, while many of the EU writers did care to and tended to take the dumbass things Lucas wrote and depict them in frank ways that didn't shy away from the obvious Fridge Horror.

That is fair to some extent, but a great deal of the problem with it is that the Legends EU was a lot more willing to portray the factions in a nuanced, gray-and-gray light. You could have good Sith, evil Jedi, and everything in-between. So you have these generations of older fans and those who just prefer Legends regardless of age treating these factions as being people - individuals as capable of good or evil as any other - and than you have some of the more simpler stories like in Disney canon where that gray morality isn't used at all and it's just black-and-white good guys versus bad guys.

Edited by immortaleditor on May 18th 2024 at 9:36:28 AM

Yeah, Lucas just wanted to cast Natalie Portman who was 14 and wanted to pair her up with Anakin, damn the logical problems with making her a Queen of Naboo.

He could have just easily made Padme the princess of Naboo.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

That is fair enough.

I can see the issue, with Lucas focusing on getting from Point A to Point B, but sometimes forgetting that it's often really Point A to Point Z with a bunch of other stuff in-between.

When you leave those gaps, people will fill them, and often not in the ways you'd like.

Edit. Yeah. I think for me, while I do enjoy Grey-and-Grey Morality, and know it can greatly enhance some stories, I think at my core, I just like having good guys beat bad guys.

That doesn't mean the Bad Guys can't have nuances, and the good guys have to be perfect. It just means sometimes it's nice to know who's who.

That's for me however.

Edited by HandsomeRob on May 18th 2024 at 9:38:59 AM

One Strip! One Strip!

Ironically The Naboo system does make the ruler much more responsive to elder statesmen since they are naturally out of their depth...

This does mean the Queen/King is largely just a figure head for their court

Hell Remember Padme mostly listened to Palpy's counsel...